This is where we’ll discuss Michael J. Salvo’s “Cinders, Ash, and Commitment: Database Pathos in Six (Million) Parts,” in RAW and available on eReserves. I have to say that I assigned this before I read it, and it wasn’t I was expecting. But it’s a fascinating piece to me in a variety of ways.
First off, either before or after (probably after at this point for most of you), I’d very much encourage you to take a look at the two databases that Salvo is discussing indirectly here, the “Holocaust Encyclopedia” and the “Personal Histories” section of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Actually, the whole web site is pretty impressive and powerful.
In any event, I think that what Salvo is doing here is an interesting departure from some of the other pieces we’ve read in that it takes a rather personal view of these technologies. In a way, it strikes me as being a sort of combination of the Hesse argument– it is, after all, “an essay”– and the Johnson-Eliola/Vilstimmig position in the way that texts can be presented out of order, in segments, as part of a database, etc. In other words, what Salvo is writing for us is his personal history/memorial based on (in part) his interaction with databases.
I think he’s most powerful in how this all “works” in the first (and large) paragraph on page 75: among other things, he says there “The database helped me see myself as an historical agent rather than a passive consumer of history,” and in that sense (as he says elsewhere, I think), the database presentations about the Holocaust are much more effective and meaningful to him than any linear and traditional essay might be.
I’ve got to say that I found this piece both fascinating and moving. To be honest, about a third of the way through, I wondered, “Where is he going with this?” And, even as I wondered, I really didn’t care where he was going… it was just good. But I think he makes a strong argument for the power of such historical representations. And, this is what new media allows us to do. To make connections w/ history and w/ experiences in a way that cannot be achieved through traditional texts. It allows us to, as he would say, “mediate our own histories.” It allows us to build our own perspective rather than being given a perspective or having it limited by a passive text. Funny, cause I didn’t read Steve’s intro before I read the piece, and the one line that really pulled me in was the “historical agent vs. passive consumer” line. It shows how something like this database really does invlove you in an active discourse with other’s experiences and your own. Salvo presents a disjointed narrative of small events in his life that take on greater meaning for him (and for us) when he HEARS & SEES other’s first hand accounts.
Yes! Such a moving piece! And so well put-together. I was pretty blown away by Salvo’s discussion of seeing “phantoms — mere mediated images — representations of representations…” (69), and being hugely moved by them. I’ve never conceptualized of experiencing art or history or movies in those terms, though it’s entirely true, because what you’re seeing is rarely real or live. Usually you’re seeing a photo or a video of something or someone, or a fictionalized representation of something that was once real or live. I guess the medium of representation has always felt pretty invisible to me. I tend to focus on the people or animals or whatever matter of thing one can connect to in such instances, but not the medium itself — the technology of representation. But as Salvo explains, “the hypermediation of narrative change[s] the experience of history” (75). All I’ll ever know of the Holocaust is the images and artifacts that are left, and the videos and exhibits and databases made to memorial the event, but without those things, I would have a much hazier and superficial (and much less humane) understanding of its magnanimity and horror. In a Steve Johnson post from earlier this week, I mentioned how video games can be emotional, and reading this piece reminded me of that — databases can be emotional, too. It’s the technorheological pathos that we’re all responding to in these situations. Very cool!
Wow, interesting Carrie. I think I am the exact opposite!
First of all, I have to say that I loved this piece. I am always interested in the more personal essay form that an academic piece can take. (This is, perhaps, because I prefer to write that way.)
Really, though, I appreciated Salvo’s message in this. After reading the introduction, “New media are not limited to logical argumentation, expanding the range of potential appeals and reorienting our relationshipwith historical materials and with the telling of history,” I started thinking about media’s role in our understanding of history and the world in general. As Salvo recollects his Vietnam-era childhood and how his memory of those times is largely a collection of televised broadcasts, I thought about my own memory, too. History is brought alive with these images we collect from new media. Televising the Vietnam War was thought of as ground-breaking in that it exposed the everyday Joe to what went on “behind the scenes” of the rhetoric in Washington. The media today– in its varying forms– allows us to be more involved than ever. It also allows us to be more informed than ever, if we seek to be. And, yes, these otherwise sterile forms of images/words on a screen can be made to speak to us and create lasting images and emotions within us. It can especially be done if it is done “right.” I am now interested in looking at the Holocaust database to further understand what Salvo has gotten from it.
Is anyone currently online? I am at the EMU library–came early for our 7pm and am trying to access this article, but to get into the ereserves from here, it tells me I need the course password. Does anyone either know how I can get around that or know the password?
Judy the password is Krause
I am with Dave and Ashlee in that I totally emersed myself in this essay. I wasn’t sure where he was going but totally liked ate it up. He definately used the ethos, pathos and logos to pull his readers in. When done right, this essay is an excellent example of how the technologies can mix with an essay to produce something memorable and life changing for the reader.
I had a student a couple of semesters ago write about the Holocaust Museum but no where as engaging as Salvo’s work. This shows how powerful pictures, voice, stories can be to someone. Then as writers how that passion is transferred through words, pictures, sound and stories.
Gloria, It’s interesting you should say that about the author’s use of logos, pathos, and ethos because the author specifically says, at the end of the essay, “…this has not been a logical argument, but one built on pathos.” I think it’s fascinating that Salvo says this and the line that follows which says, “..this presentation of material provides pathways to engaging both emotionally and perhaps deeper, non-intellectually, viscerally…” (80). Basically, he’s claiming that pathos takes us beyond our intellect into something deeper and, perhaps, more powerful in his opinion. I would agree that his stories (and stories in general) have the power to reach beyond our human minds into our human souls.
How’s that for deep…? I might be “in over my head” with this one
Gloria, do you find that a lot of your students’ work isn’t as moving as this? I know mine old high school students didn’t really produce “moving” writing. They had some well written stuff for sure, but getting the “good” stuff took a lot of work and coaxing. Do you think this is because students are afraid to really immerse themselves in a piece of writing? Maybe they don’t realize that their writing can be part of them? I know in my younger years I would have been embarrassed as all get out to do that. Just thinking…
Angie; I think part of it might be embarrassment, but another thing to consider is that most teachers don’t really encourage this kind of writing, perhaps because they don’t really understand it. I imagine many student might try to express themselves like this but there efforts aren’t rewarding when it comes to praise or grades.
I think too that students haven’t seen a lot of this modeled for them. This semester I was in awe that my students wrote personal stories in a way that was gripping and detailed. I think part of the reason they could do this was that I had given an example of writing that showed them what a good narrative would look like.
Writing personal narrative doesn’t come easy to college students. I guess there was a study on “creativity” recently described on NPR that showed kids in the 2nd grade scored “20′s” on this particular test of creativity while college students scored “2′s.” I think we beat the natural creativity out of people all through high school and then wonder in college why our students write bland essays (there are some great articles on this).
Another thought on this topic…frequently college students DO write creatively – just not in college. In my opinion, they’ve been taught to divorce the personal experience from academic writing. Academic writing is supposed to be sterile and scientific without any personal opinion, which doesn’t leave a lot of room for creative personal narratives.
This is a bit of a tangent, but I’ll tell you why I don’t have assignments in classes– particularly first-year writing classes– that reward/encourage the personal experience:
First, this is really hard to do well. Really REALLY hard. I’m not saying it’s just hard because the students are young and inexperience, though that is definitely part of it. For many 18 year-olds, the “big personal moment” is the big game or the prom or something else that is frankly cliched or trite. So that Salvo is able to pull this off here is a mark of a good writer.
Second, far too often, young and/or inexperienced writers are not able to pull of the “personal experience” that connects to something that is potentially interesting to the reader. I think that’s why this piece works really well: you might not know where Salvo is going initially with this piece, but by the time you get to the end, you see the point he’s trying to make, and it is more than his own relationship with the Holocaust.
And third, the problem with assigning “personal writing” (especially for first year writing classes) is you either risk a sort of invasion of privacy or, on the other extreme, students sharing “too much information” that you might put an instructor into a difficult spot. So, for example, if a student writes a “important personal experience” kind of essay about the day they learned to drive and you don’t think that’s “personal enough,” what do you do? Or, worse yet, what if the student writes about the day he saw his alcoholic father shoot his mother (or some other horrific thing)? And what if that student’s essay isn’t very good?! As an instructor, you’re put into a double-bind: you open yourself up to be a “counselor” (and few of us have that kind of training) and you also are in a place where you are “evaluating” that student’s experience vis a vis his not great writing. It’s a tough spot.
Of course, Salvo wasn’t writing this as an assignment he’d turn in, which says something else about what counts as “writing,” I suppose….
Those are all good points and I completely agree, but at the high school level I feel like so many assignments teachers give are personal narratives of some sort in order to help students become “invested” in their writingl, but you’re right, it makes it hard to grade those experiences. I had a students do a “peop” on how he used to be hardcore into drugs and the first time he became addicted to heroine… it was pretty written but didn’t exactly fulfill the requirements of the assignment. I felt bad giving him the check plus, but it was a really awkward thing to read.
Well that, for me, is where the grading on conventions or the requirements of the assignment come in and making them with a rubric before hand. So I have had some not do the CRJs for 121 the way I have outlined and so they dont get full credit. Its not about what they say but do they answer the promts. If you tell a student write a story about their life they will and so then what do you do with that? Grade it on the grammar and that is teaching nothing to them. Now if you say write a personal narrative and attempt to persuade or …..then you have something to work with. It really goes back to that idea of really making assignments that students know what they need to do and make it clear cut what you want.
Well, the only way to help them use their personal experiences is by example, I guess. But, I feel for the teachers that have to go through the injuries with the students when they write about them. To read about personal tragedy is no easy thing and to do it on a daily basis…. how do you stop yourself from going beyond the teacher’s role?
I thought it was interesting how his story came to be linked to his experiences of the past. He wanted to make connections and links between himself and a different culture, to find the connection through “technorhetorical” connections. The database brought history to life and allowed him to see the world in a way that would never have been made possible without the advent of such amazing technology. If we could bring this into the classroom more, students would be highly motivated and find the relevance of the materials we are teaching to their own lives!
But wouldn’t this be considered a narrative essay? And if so, it was pretty powerful and I think still a good tool to use in the classroom.
To me this really felt like what I get from students in a lot of their crot essays. This has the elements of research but it also has that personal touch to it as well and that is what we want our students to see that research can and should do to and for us. So often they see reserach as something disconnected from what they do when they write a poem or song or on a friends FB wall. But the truth is there are so many overlaps between genres that it can be so much more. I was reading this and was totally into the stories and also aware at the same time that I was reading something that was based in research but was not so laden with all the actual resreach that Salvo had done. It was like an I-search piece and I like those. Sometimes when writing it taught the thing that seems to get lost is the process and the journey that students take along the way. They learn more than stuff about a topic but should also learn more about who they are as writers and researchers.
Cristin, I’ve always hated the term “crot.” Can you come up with another name for this genre?
Ugh, me too. Crot(ch) essays. And for what it’s worth, I think that the “crot” essay is more of an EMU writing program idiosyncrasy than it is a recognizable genre.
I called them “shorts”…
I did not make up that word. It is Tom Romano’s books (I dont think he made it up either) and, yes we use it a lot at EMU.
Oh, don’t get me wrong– I’m not saying you made it up. I think it’s one of those things that has become part of the lingo of the first year writing program, like “L1″ and “L2.” If you go to some other place and say “I have my students do crots before they do their L1s,” no one will understand what you’re talking about.
BTW, here’s a definition of a crot that builds off of what I think folks assign in first year writing.
Oh I know what you are talking about…..I hate L1 I call all what we do units or projects cuz there are so many pieces. I just mean its not my word. But I do have one student each semester who falls in love with the word and will continue to use it all semester. it is a fun word to play with as well.
I’ve written my proposal. I took my midterm. I kicked my fever and dealt with some huge issues! Now I’m ready to talk about this article. LOL
First– I am trying to write like Salvo in my research project. I wasn’t sure about my style and if it would work for this class, but after reading Salvo, I feel more confident.
I agree, “academic argumentation does not accurately capture the emotional”.
When I am researching and writing and trying to make a difference or some kind of impact, I do not know how to do that without involving self, the logos and pathos.
I like this idea!!!! A database creates a pathos from a human?? Isn’t this the human-computer territory? We are kind of getting into a different field and I am really happy about that!
I think the most touching part is that I pretty much witnessed for the first time someone admitting, conquering their antisemitic self.
I have never ever read anything like this. I’ve studied Holocaust literature. I looked at these data bases.
I guess Salvo’s piece made me feel more connected to things that I did not feel I was connected to.
Like I think he was saying that we are all victims of war. We are all connected and technology really is that powerful to show how connected we are.
I don’t want to sound like a flake so I will stop there.
LOL
“Cinders” this word seem so small with a huge meaning behind it.
I wonder if it was metaphorical… Derrida was known for that, wasn’t he?
Some other things that I wrote down:
Memory seems to connect unrelated things. One of the mediums for memory is technology.
His stream of consciousness, his narrative is highly sophisticated. this is the kind of thing I can really appreciate. It takes A LOT of skill to use narrative to make a really sophisticated point and he did it.
I learned more about technology as a medium for other things, other parts of our bodies.
Ya! Technological bridging- forging networks of association! Changing our identities
What the heck is molly moaning??
Last but not least, it is so neat how small a database can make you feel.
Loved it!!!!
First: my thanks. Thanks to Steve for inviting me, and for using this text. And thank you all for your close attention and engagement. It will be difficult to respond to all the ideas popping in my head as I read your responses, and please repond with follow-ups.
Okay, I love that there is a query for a password among these in-depth responses. For access is an important — “necessary but insufficient” — aspect of technorhetoric. We need access in order to get to any of the materials before we can get into any of the materials. So I can think of no better testimonial than “what’s the passcode”?
Logos: yes, I am deeply impacted by Lyotard. In a very early version of this work, I try to explain differend. Then, following Cheryl Ball (Show =/= Tell) I decide not to explain but to enact differend, so you have me talking about pizza and holocaust. How do you logically explain emotions? Can I prove to you my fear? How do I argue in support of my anger?
Derrida wrote a book titled Cinders, and as an Algerian Jew, it was precisely about the lack of history, evidence, and first-hand experience that leaves a painful hole in the self, a sense of lack, of emptiness, of void, that is so much the part of myself that I found myself trying to explain logically and then realizing that logic wasn’t the point at all.
Hypermediated selves: what are we other than the agglomeration of experiences? And in our contemporary emplacement, what are those experiences if not mediated? (If not medicated.)
Renee: See chapter 18 of James Joyce’s Ulysses, or cheat and go to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Bloom's_soliloquy (Yes.)
Oh, and it’s okay if there’s a gap between what students can see in other work and what they can produce: Ira Glass has a great piece on the gap between taste and production:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hidvElQ0xE
I recommend all 4 videos, but this one is vaguely topical.
What have I missed? What do you want to know?
(and as an immoderate online post generator, I appreciate that the blog tells me my post is awaiting “moderation.”
Thanks again to you too, Mike! I’m see you in Kentucky, I hope!
Certainly I’m planning to be in Kentucky: are any members of the class making the trip for Cs?
Holy cow!!!! Thanks!!!