This is where we’ll be discussing “Writing With Video: What Happens When Composition Comes off the Page?” by Maria Lovett, Katherine Gossett, James Purdy, Carrie Lamanna, and Joseph Squier. My apologies for posting this a bit late, but so goes life– and it’s likely to get worse as I prepare my talk for the CCCCs (hopefully I’ll finish that up next).
Oh, an update: Joseph Squier sent me a link to the current “Writing with Video” web site. I haven’t had a chance to poke around at it yet, but there’s lots of examples and such of the kind of thing that is discussed in the chapter.
I think this essay is pretty straight-forward and for the most part, it rings true with my own experiences teaching students to make videos and making some videos of my own. The “writerliness” of the act of videoing sort of surprised me when I first did it myself, and I’d be curious to hear from you who have done book reviews and/or who are in the process of book reviews what you think of this.
A couple of key points I’ll highlight: first, I think that the point they make in the last paragraph on 290 is very true, that the goal of these activities is not to make “great filmmakers” per se, but rather, to raise awareness of how that process works. You learn a lot about any kind of text by making one, and that includes video. Though it is also worth noting, as these folks do in a footnote someplace, that there is an increasing demand for multimedia skills in the marketplace for people seeking jobs as professional and technical writers.
They bring up a similar kind of point on page 298, and here they are broadening the sort of role in the curriculum a class like “writing with video” might have, especially in relation to a traditional writing class. I don’t disagree with this, though I will say that I wonder and worry about the questions of emphasis and when this sort of video writing is introduced. For a lot of the students I have had in first year writing here at EMU, I don’t think this class would serve them well because so many of those students are struggling with “words in a row” literacy. I mean, if I teach students in 120 or 121 how to make a really cool video but they still can’t write a clear paragraph, I think I’ve done them a disservice. Not that it’s an either/or thing, but it is a question of emphasis.
The other thing I wish with this chapter is I wish it included some actual examples and not just discussion of those examples. I suppose that’s inevitable with a book, but I did email the authors and asked if they had any examples we could check out.
I was having a hard time visualizing and putting into words what they were talking about with how “the writing feeds the video, which feeds back into the writing.” Can anyone explain this in words that don’t necessarily confuse me at the moment? I think my brain is just overloaded.
I really liked the four stages of the video composing process. It really broke it down and made me see how and why it’s all so important. Writing is indeed prevalent in all four stages. I think it’s really important that they incorporated aspects of reflective writing in there, metacognitive processes help students evolve as writers and thinkers and this is evident in the way these authors go about using it in the classroom. The idea of having them write responses to their videos is also really cool because students can learn where to improve in the future.
I think it’s important that they point out how having students focus on the process and create these videos helps students recognize that there are multiple ways to make meaning and each of them are valid in their own way. “They learn how to look at rather than simply through such texts” meaning they don’t just use it as a means to help them make sense of the world and their research, but they look at the research and information itself.
Angie, I think they mean that students use writing to think through what they’re doing in terms of video production; and, in producing video content, the same students are motivated to return to writing write. You could compare it to a journalist. A journalist conducts an interview which they write up and, in the process of writing, probably finds some new questions to ask, which sends them back to the interview subject.
Angie, I think what he is getting at might be most directly explained in the same way that research shapes our argument/thesis in a more traditional writing project. We go into it w/ ideas and questions. But as we research, we find new questions that were not apparent to us in the beginning. In the same way, writing (pre-production) can help the student form guiding priciples/questions that will inform the footage they seek… but then after shooting and editing the video, new questions or perspectives may become apparent by re-viewing the footage, that could then inform the writing in the reflection (post-production) phase. For example, the student that did the NCLB video may have gone in with certain ideas that were then expanded or even negated once the interviews were complete. The student that shot the shadows on the floor may have found inspiration in his prewriting for the direction he would follow, but then came to new realizations after seeing how people interacted with their own shadows on the floor. At least that’s how I would see it. Hope it helps
wow, brian. Yours took a while to load. When I started writing this five minutes ago your reply wasn’t there… and now it is. But, I think we are thinking along the same lines. You’re just much more concise than me
Good points.
There are huge differences in meaning when you involve video. The writing has more depth and thus will take a lot more time to analyze, breakdown and critique if we are to look at it as writing. What does that mean for teachers? The time consumption won’t be in teaching technology. It could very well be in the grading and you’ll have a lot more grading based on participation then on word choice, grammar, creativity, abstract thinking, applying complex concepts in tense situations or simply, thought processes.
Geez.
I think about what we do when we critique an essay or poem, we look at everything from syntax to punctuation to aesthetic devices. Videos change the entire process of analyzing, grading and critiquing.
Just to add to what others said/build on it based on my own experiences:
I think there are more similarities in the process of “writing on a page” and “making a video” than might be evident to those who have never done one or the other– particularly those of us who are as invested as we are in “words in a row” kind of writing. The first time I made a video, I was really struck by how similar the process was, especially in terms of revision and arrangement. When I have students work together in small groups in 328 on making videos and then report back about it in their own essays, they tend to write about similar things.
Angie,
Responding to your question above, what we meant by the first part of that statement was that the students write their way into their video through their research, process journals and storyboards; by doing that, they begin to see writing as part of the creative process, not just an addendum to it. Students are required to keep their process journals up-to-date, so they are writing and pulling stills and video clips from their works in progress into that journal. When they do that, the video begins to feed the writing process as students begin to explain the choices they made, or sometimes they see where the video breaks down and return to writing as way to revise their video. The acts of writing and producing video in this class are intertwined at every step of the process together.
I hope that helps.
I see video writing as the act of taking plain text, combining it with images, and trying to carry the message throughout these two components.
The complexity of this process is one of the reasons that I agree with Krause’s statement, “I mean, if I teach students in 120 or 121 how to make a really cool video but they still can’t write a clear paragraph, I think I’ve done them a disservice. ” What I’ve seen happening when I teach video, the emphases for learning heads towards that visual component and the writing falls by the wayside. I completely understand this because I’m a huge visual person, and it’s really easy to get wrapped up in creating that perfect picture for your reader. However, if those visuals take precedence over the text in the writing classroom, I struggle with that.
I think though that this type of video-making class would be a blast for more advanced writers – those who are ready to take on the challenge of adding that visual component to the writing they’ve already somewhat mastered.
That helps a lot! Thank you for your response (and everyone else’s
)
Sure, they are still writing words in a row, which makes sense since that is still such a useful tool and such an important part in putting together lots of multimedia projects, including video. But again, I think it’s worth pushing the idea that what you were/are teaching in the WWV is extremely similar to “words in a row” writing. And as the technology and expectations for “words in a row” writing change and evolve, I agree with Angie that WWV and FYW start to look a lot more alike.
Here is a link to the “Shadows” motif discussed in the article:
http://courses.kathiegossett.com/media/shadows.mov
I too would have like to see some of the examples. This line: “Students are asked to make use of multisensory articulation when translating their essay to the screen,” really grabbed me and I thought to myself: “Cool, I really would like to see that in action.”
I also thought that “authentic creation has been replaced by selection from a menu” was a very interesting thought. I wonder if this is a good or bad thing. I could see it both ways. I suppose it gets to the idea of remixing. Is a remix truly authentic, or is it just “selecting from a menu?” Although it may not be original, I think it could still be seen as authentic. I don’t know… what do some of you think?
I think a remix can be authentic. It may be the bringing together of other bits and pieces of texts and images, and the final product may be informed by other ideas, but at the same time, if it’s done in a thoughtful way it can remain true to the original ideas or themes, or comment on the original piece in an even more meaningful way. Like the political remixes we watched, those were even more powerful than some of the originals which to me means that they have authenticity in our society.
I think using video is a great way to teach about audience, but I agree with what Steve says that at writing teachers our first obligation is to teach the words on the page method. I mean after that point a teacher can have students use the different methods to alter the way they present the material and do videos to present the material in different ways. I will comment on making the video for our book review and how hard it really was. I was very self conscience of what I was doing, more so than when I write. I dont know if it was because I could see myself on the screen or not. I also was very aware of my voice and what i was saying. I think this is more because I felt like I was talking to no one at all, but I as aware that I was talking to our class at least. It was what i would classify as a very surreal experience. I think more so then if I had a camera and someone else videotaped me. But i do think this is an experience that students should have.
I think video essays can teach students about making choices depending on their audience and purpose in a visual + aural environment, so I agree with you there. Whenever an instructor creates an assignment with a lot of moving parts (both literally and figuratively), they have to create a lot of structure for students and help them through the (sometimes numerous) technical hoops. What I think some instructors find frustrating is that the technical curve consumes time when students could be focusing on higher level concerns or issues of craft, which involves making some tough decisions, I think. Emphasis is part of it, I think, as Prof Krause says, and I would add that having explicit, transparent outcomes and priorities for multimodal assignments also makes them easier to justify (and grade).
Not saying its easy, it is not, just a good option.
Carrie— I don’t think that teachers will always experience this frustration. I don’t want to sound too futuristic but from what I’ve seen, kids are way more advanced than their parents as far as using software and gadgets on the internet to create animae (sp), youtube videos and what have you.
Just to clarify, WWV is an advanced composition course at UIUC and an elective at others. I too agree that our focus in FYC should be on the words on a page; but what about beyond that? The students in WWV tend to end up having done much more writing than other writing intensive courses, and they end up learning how to make better editorial choices in both text and video when composing their arguments.
That having been said, however, I wonder if “freshman composition” won’t end up looking more like WWV in the future as composing and communication technologies advance. Thoughts?
Oh I agree that comp needs to be more than words on the page, and I do that in my classes as well, even encourage it. I think what some of us are saying is that for them to be able to do beyond the words on the page they need to know how to do the words on the page as well. I love the idea of using video and other mediums as well.
I think FYW is very likely to look like WWV in the future! With the expanding definition of literacy and the fact that visual literacy is becoming more and more important, we can’t deny that the internal workings of the FYWP’s are changing… and need to change. This is pretty much what we’ve been talking about all semester, how writing classrooms need to evolve in order to stay relevant to students’ lives, and if we don’t incorporate more aspects of new media technology then it won’t be any more.
The issue of where to put this stuff in FYC is really interesting. FYC is already an overcrowded course at most universities; moreover, in FYC there are a series of relevant outcomes that have to do with writing that are very important. I don’t think anyone wants to forget about writing completely.
One way I see video, music and other modes fitting into FYC is to use these new modes to help students understand important aspect of the writing process. An article I read by Mickey Hess argues that teaching students the way hip-hop artists go about sampling to create new music helps them think about academic citation. I like it! If you’re interested, the article is titled: “Was Foucault A Plagarist? Hip-Hop Sampling and Academic Citation.”
wow, thank you Kathie, for your clarification. I agree with Brian and David too.
Why is it I am always agreeing with one of the guys?
It surely helps for clarity to know that this was for an advanced class.
And yes, Cristin, I agree with you too. I have just recorded and trashed a book review video twice already!
Ya WWV/ WWR(F) Words in a row vs. Writing through video.
The writing with video and video creation through writing is tearing words in a row a new one. I think that writing is changing because of the way we are relearning/learning how to do it (which explains my confusion). I’m reificating and rationalizing my own responses to the material constantly. Writing is really changing. It’s like turning into something else that I have not experienced before. The process described here seems completely different. It’s more coherent, maybe.
I think that freshman comp has no choice but to change.
Dr. Krause, Good luck with your presentation! I’m heading to the CCCC’s too…presenting with Linda and Cathy and a couple other past grad students. I’m working on memorizing my presentation now, and I have a little ways to go.
So when is your presentation? Maybe I can come…
We might have to have a little EMU faculty/grad student meet-up! I’m presenting on Thursday afternoon during session C– I think it’s 1:45. I’m actually going to finish up my talk today (hopefully) and I’ll post a link to it to the class so folks can see what I’m talking about. It does actually involve a little of this talk on remix….
Darn. I’m going to miss your session because I’ll be arriving later on Thursday. Our presentation is on Friday morning. It’d still be fun to meet up sometime though.
Really hoping to get my part of the presentation somewhat memorized between now and then…got the intro down, but that’s about it.
I’ve really enjoyed reading the discussion here! One of the changes I’ve made in most of my writing classes is to refer to what we are doing as composing rather than writing. That change seems to make the argument for the inclusion of other modalities in writing classrooms a bit more acceptable to the powers that be. And, as an aside, Joseph Squier, one of the authors and a Professor of Narrative Media at UIUC, has been known to say that his plan is to co-op the world of freshman composition and make all composition classes more like WWV.
I will be at ATTW and 4Cs this year and would be happy to get together if anyone would like talk about this more. Jim Purdy will also be at 4Cs. My email is: kgossett@odu.edu.
I really enjoyed reading this article and have grown to appreciate why video along with writing is important. With so many postings of YouTube and this is a new literacy, it makes sense to study the production. A few weeks back Steve said “just because someone has a video camera doesn’t make him good at it.” I will be using some of their stages in my class. I like the idea about using it as a tool in argumentation.