To get things going this week with our discussion of gaming and writing pedagogy, let me offer this short video and a couple of other thoughts:
- I am not personally a “gamer.” Actually, that tends to extend beyond video games too– I really am not much into many games at all. But games of all sorts are of course popular with lots of people, and the wide-spread popularity of video games is pretty hard to ignore. In my household, the big gamer is my twelve year old; my guess is that in your household, there’s someone who is the designated gamer too.
Anyway, because of that, I have gone back and forth on including a unit on gaming in this class. And I guess I decided to go back to it this time around because the last time I taught this course, I had students who literally said “jeez, I wish we would have talked about this.” So it’s back.
- I encourage you to resist the stereotypes as you read/engage in this material. That is, video games go way beyond the realm of geeky teenage boys playing violent shooting games (though that’s a part of it that we might end up discussing). It’s a multi-billion dollar industry and, with things like the Wii and so-called “casual games” (the sort of thing you might play on Facebook, for example), it’s a heck of a lot more widespread in terms of age and gender.
- If you’ve never played a video game– especially of the sort that Gee and the others are talking about here– you need to try it out. I’ve asked you to play newsgaming.com’s September 12 and Madrid, but if there’s something like an X-Box in your house and you’ve never tried it out before, give it a whirl. And try to play something from the beginning too– that will make the Gee make more sense, I think.
I really love this little movie. And, I am definitely NOT a gamer–my area of expertise ends with solitaire or free cell, although I used to be fairly good at Tetris–can you see a pattern here? But, I do understand the whole idea of tangential learning. I have also seen my students go from video games like Halo to books. I am not sure which came first, the Halo game or the books, but if the games spawn readers, they are ok by me!. I do, however, have a lot of students who have told me that, on the whole, they believe parents are clueless as to the extent of the violence in the games their younger kids play. My 15-16 year olds think parents need to be more cognizant of that. But, I know for sure that some of my gamer kids are also among my brighter kids.
I have noticed, too, in regard to the facebook games, that it seems that people of all ages are playing it. My 76 year old aunt plays Farmville with my cousin who is in his 60′s and one of her grand daughters who is just a little over 20.
I’m all for this video games and teaching thing. I was video game geek in high school and do think there is tons of learning potential, not just in a tangential way, but actually in video games themselves. They can be very complex and require lots of conceptual, even artful thinking.
I wrote on my blog about my pessimism regarding the learning potential of video games, so here I’ll argue the opposing side. The night after I wrote my post I was hanging out with my husband and his friend who were talking about physics and something came up about Leonardo da Vinci. I said something about da Vinci’s contribution to science through his dissections, which spawned a friendly debate between my husband and I over whether or not da Vinci did dissections. I won the debate, but the only reason that I knew this fact was because of a documentary I watched maybe ten years or more ago.
This does connect to the topic of video games! I know my example is about movies instead of video games, but I think that both involve somewhat of the same type of passive learning experience. And, like the authors of the little video above said, if the person engaging in watching/playing is interested in the topic, facts from movies or games might actually stick around and learning might take place.
I agree totally Andrea, but what about the fact that high school teachers are being told they cannot show videos in the classroom these days? In Vegas we were watched like hawks to make sure 1) we used video very sparingly and 2) any video used was highly educational and had direct value to student learning. But even then, we needed the deans and principals to approve the movies and when they did, they still frowned on movies being used. If it’s not ok to use video these days, why is it ok to teach using video games? Just a thought! I’m not attacking, just trying to make connections between why schools are moving away from digital technology in some instances and research is pushing us toward it in other ways.
Well, I guess I’ve got a couple of thoughts here, Angie:
* I think this is one of the differences between teaching in secondary schools versus teaching at the college level, even though the difference between classes like first year writing and (high school) senior English is often only a few months. It’s not that you can do anything in first year writing of course, but you could probably show some videos and/or incorporate video games at most colleges or universities.
* High school experiences/rules vary widely. For example, while you might have had issues with this in Vegas, I’ll bet you this is something you could do at some places like Open High in Ann Arbor. It’s certainly the kind of thing that goes on at Greenhills (where we’re sending our child) and other private and more innovative schools.
* I think the other thing to keep in mind here is that if you get from a course like this a certain amount of “ammunition” on this and other issues having to do with the whys and hows of teaching with technology, then I’ve done at least part of my job. So when that high school principal or parent raises questions about the usefulness of video games (for example), then you can (hopefully) say “well, have you ever read about this guy James Paul Gee?”
Oh, I would definitely stand up for movies and video games as learning tools, especially after finding out that the military uses video games to teach pilots how to fly and how they have created remote planes that pilots here can fly overseas to “scope things out” or bomb if need be. Also hearing about MIT and other schools who have had great success with computer games in the classroom makes me hopeful that they are more than just “fun and games” for teaching. I know I sometimes sound like I’m completely against them sometimes, but I’m not. I think it’s fascinating, I’m just not completely sure of what this could look like in the English/Lit classroom or if it’s “necessary” in some respects.
I am not a gamer either, just dont like to play any of them. I am not sure if its because my mom cheats or I just dont like to play them, but I do see how important they can be and they have a lot of value to them. Its like a good book does not have to teach but will do it anyway as well as entertain. That is what a good game can and will do.
I LOVED that video. Is there a series of them or anything?
And, yes, I am definitely NOT a gamer in the more modern-day sense– Xbox, Nintendo, Facebook and other Internet games. I get bored really quickly with video games and have never understood the hype surrounding them. I must admit that I recently bought a Wii and I don’t get so bored with it, since it is so interactive. Even then, though, I only play it about once every two to three weeks. I do like playing board games and I, like Judy, play a pretty mean game of computer Solitaire and Tetris. So, I understand that it is a “to each his own” kind of situation.
Not being a gamer does not mean that I don’t see the value in games as a form of education. I remember absolutely loving “Oregon Trail” as a kid and, after teaching fifth grade for a year, saw many other good examples of educational and fun games. I am all for the tangential learning aspect, too. After all, my sister is a prime example of that. (She has been watching Jeopardy since she was four years old and always has the Discovery Channel on in the background. She is the queen of random facts.) If you can get students to learn in new and unexpected ways, I am all for it.
I agree Ashlee, I loved playing the Oregon Trail, but honestly, did I learn anything from it? i don’t think so. I learned it was good to kill buffalo and bad to get yellow fever. Other than that, not a lot of connections were made between the game and my learning. Maybe it was just me though, IDK!
You also had to have learned about what items were needed for the journey and how to total up those items when you went to the general stores! But, yes, I often died of yellow fever, scarlet fever, small pox, or drowning in the river. I guess the main purpose of the game was to teach you that life sucked and you should be happy we have vaccines and cars now.
Right, lol. I definitely enjoyed playing, don’t get me wrong. Just don’t think I took too much away from it
The video was really cool and I like his point about tangential learning. Learning about something that’s within a topic you’re already engaged in and interested in. getting people interested in new topics so they explore self-learning is a fantastic idea at heart, I think it’s what most of us teachers strive to do on a daily basis. I mean, I’ve taught plenty of things I thought were super cool and interesting and tried to get students pumped about it, but sometimes they are just apathetic to most everything. I mean, I can’t exactly assign them to watch 300 so they can get excited to research past “heroes”. I think even if I asked them to do that on their free time I would have tons of parental freakouts. I’m not 100% sure of how I feel about video games and the classroom though, at least not the English classroom.
So that’s what it’s called– tangential learning. Writing through video is called tangential writing, right?
Anyway, I want to buy one of those game stations and collect the video games. What kinds do they have??!? IT IS SO interesting. I am so excited.
What a great little movie!!! This guy is hilarious and entertaining. I really enjoyed it and never thought I would watch something like this in a classroom!!!
Oh that gap between games that encourage you to teach yourself and games that are merely for entertainment is really interesting. I would like to know more about the history of this gap and what happened there.
Is there an index or website that have the different tangential learning video games that you can buy??
Well, no about the tangential learning/tangential writing. “Tangential” here is connected to “tangent,” and essentially, what they’re getting at here is people are learning about things via video games almost “by accident” or “on the side.” For example, they talk here about how gamers end up looking stuff up that various games reference. That’s the “tangent” part of things.
Now, I think that’s a good thing of course, but it is also the difference between “learning” and “teaching.” To me, learning is one of those things that has to be pretty self-motivated, especially under the conditions described here. Teaching is a little more externally driven, IMO; that is, all the stuff associated with classes and degrees and such are the teaching apparatus that helps students (hopefully) to learn.
So in that sense, while I think that there’s potential with video games for sure and I think they’re interesting to analyze and think about as “writerly spaces,” I’m not sure how far we can take that. If that makes sense.
I think video games will come in handy for people that like to learn on their own. I’m not sure if they will teach people to teach themselves. People/Teachers can’t be replaced, definitely. But the technology and how people allow themselves to be influenced by it is exciting to learn about.
Teaching self is a huge subject with many different components. Is that what we are really discussing here?
One of the coolest directions people are taking video games is in relationship to consciousness. You can find a lot of this stuff by searching around Google. Here’s one example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyMpk11h4QY
That’s an interesting video, Brian. And one thing I’ve noticed kind of interesting about the games my son plays nowadays is that you typically can play the “good guys” or the “bad guys,” which I think fits into this in some fashion….
On Madrid: it would be great if you could get past the first stage w/o making your clicking finger numb.
Did you get past the first stage? I got mad
No! I played for about ten minutes and gave up.
One of the issues that comes up in Education programs is that kids need to master things before they can move on to the next level or step. While a lot of schools are gettting away from that (thos that use Everyday Math) there are those that are not. This reinforces what I have felt and teach all the time that exposure is so much more important than mastery in any thing that we do. We are exposed to much more in our lives than we master and if we have to master it we can never move on. This is a great idea and i think that video games are good for this. I know the argument that games are addictive, but so can anything and everything. I think that if educators just give the games a chance they will begin to see the potentel they have for teaching and learning. I know the school my kids went to for elementary used games a lot and the kids loved them.
I too, share the enthusiasm about this video. Very cool, entertaining and thought provoking. I think, like a lot of things in education, this is sort of a “changing of the gaurd” issue. As more and more teachers come into the profession as former gamers, they will bring with them an enthusiasm for the possibilites they might hold. At this point, I’m not sure how accepted it would really be in most mainstream schools. Although I’m not a “gamer” in the sense that the word has come to represent (although I had my fair share of all-night Bond and Halo sessions as an undergrad), I love games. I think a big part of learning and logic is held in the ability to strategize… and many games teach this exceptionally well. I’ve never been a math person (shocking, I know) but I love playing cards… poker, euchre, rummy etc. And in order to play these games effectively, you have to think of your moves ahead and calculate odds (admittedly, some games call for this more than others). But for me, these games brought the concept of calculating odds, stragegizing, and making educated guess into focus in a way that a statistics class never could. Not exactly tangetial learning, but engaged, applicable learing none the less.
Tangential learning! I do this all the time! While bumming around Wikipedia after watching a movie or playing a game sometimes feels silly, geeky, or wasteful, this video makes me see it as self-teaching. I’ll never feel guilty about game-playing or movie-watching again, because these things are encouraging my intellectual development by exposing me to things I didn’t know about! … Well, at least I’ll feel a little less guilty, anyway…
I think parents and teachers should try to foster this kind of self-teaching as much as possible when kids are young. For example, if they’re playing a game together and the kid asks a question about something in the game, they should take them to the computer and look up whatever the kid is interested in. The child will then learn how to find answers to their questions. Of course, it’s not cool to self-teach when you’re a teenager, but hopefully these early-development experiences will stick with them as they get older and facilitate life-long learning.
I really liked the video, and again my eyes and mind have been opened to something that I really did not care about or think was worthy of consideration. The tangential learning is something I hope developers do incorporate in their gaming for all the young males who do play. This is a perfect way to add “vitamins” to something they are already spending much time doing. I have had a ton of papers from students who game and live for it. There papers are so passionate and voice so loud because they are writing about something that is apart of them. I will have to show this video in my classes. I can see that it is not completely wasted time.
That’s interesting Gloria. I haven’t had that experience with students writing about their gaming lives, but when I get back into the high school classroom I am sure I will see lots of it! Do you think sharing this video and showing them that their “fun-time,” non-educational stuff is actually educational in some ways will turn them off? It might be one of those, “face book is fun until mom gets on” kind of thing.